Discuss the Ghostbusters movie that was released in 2016.
#4886893
Specifically, I am referring to Sony Pictures since other studios seem to be doing just fine. When it comes to franchises that already have an established fanbase, should studios do more to open up channels of communication with fans prior to the release of the movie, or are the fans considered such an insignificant number of overall moviegoers that it's not worth the effort to seek their opinions?

It's my understanding that Paul Feig insisted that Ivan Reitman's involvement in ATC be limited. If Sony wasn't even willing to accept his input, clearly they wouldn't have bothered to listen to fans, hence the disaster of biblical proportions this movie became. The executives at the top exist in a vacuum where outside input is not welcome. Amy Pascal and Paul Feig both had their own motivations for the direction of this film that went beyond making a quality addition to the GB franchise.

In the early stages of development, I think it would be wise for production companies to solicit feedback from diehard fans to get a general sense of how it's going to be received before investing hundreds of millions of dollars into a box office bomb. It isn't necessary to release tons of details and spoilers, but Sony didn't bother to reach out to the fans until shit hit the fan and they needed immediate damage-control. It's doubtful they would've even invited fans to the premier for support if it hadn't generated so much negative publicity leading up to it.
#4886896
It goes both ways. Fandoms need to learn to respect creators again. Batman '89 would utterly bomb today because it didn't follow some dumb comic continuity. Hard core fans have lost a lot of perspective over the years. They think that because Lucas screwed up, that no creator deserves any respect again unless he grovels to the fans. I'm sorry but while being a fan of something is fun, it's not an accomplishment in life. And it doesn't automatically make us the almighty experts in anything.

And "biblical proportions"? Can we give the hyperbole a rest for more than two seconds? This is precisely why studios SHOULD'NT always listen to fans. And there was no way to predict the backlash against this particular movie would be so ridiculous. There is no way to normalize it, despite the best efforts of the Internet to try. ;)

Where you and I do agree is Reitman and Aykroyd shouldn't have been edged out by the studio. I just don't trust fans to have embraced a GB3. Not with the way they've behaved lately.
Sav C, devilmanozzy, SockableClaw and 4 others liked this
#4886908
But Kylie does have a point. Hardcore fans cry the loudest. Im not saying Ivan shouldve sat on Feigs lap the whole time while filming but atleast let the man set up the bumper rails on Feigs bowling alley. I can see remaking a flop from scratch cough*Hulk*cough but GB1 and 2 were succesful movies. I dont know crap about the Jason Bourne movies but if I was directing a reboot you bet your ass I'd do my research and talk to the fans and past production crew.

Instead of taking the wheel and saying I'm gonna drive this tank anywhere I damn well please, more care and consideration shouldve have been taken. From the interviews I saw, Feig always seemed to have the "I'll do what I want" attitude and the more out cry came against it the more he pushed back. There was a precedence and an expectation that the fans had and it wasnt met to the their standard.

On the flip flop, kids loved it. And if a new generation of GBs spawns from this movie then more power to it. In the end thats all I care about. I havent seen it (I've seen all I can stand online from trailers to movie clips) and I dont ever plan to BUT its been realised into the universe, whether we like it or not. I just want people to stop asking if I got my no ghost tattoo because of the new movie....lol
JurorNo.2 liked this
#4886914
True that. Sony is like the Quarterback from your old high school football team. They live in the past talking about their old glory days by retelling the same tale to anybody willing to sit there and listen to them lol. Sony needs to take off the letterman jacket and join the real world.
#4886916
Tyko wrote:True that. Sony is like the Quarterback from your old high school football team. They live in the past talking about their old glory days by retelling the same tale to anybody willing to sit there and listen to them lol. Sony needs to take off the letterman jacket and join the real world.
Same with WB and their constant Batman reboots. And Disney with their constant Marvel and now Star Wars milking.
pferreira1983 liked this
#4886917
Tyko wrote: Instead of taking the wheel and saying I'm gonna drive this tank anywhere I damn well please, more care and consideration shouldve have been taken.
More care and consideration should have been taken with the creators of GB84, I agree. I'm just very cynical of fandoms in recent years, I'm sorry to say.
On the flip flop, kids loved it. And if a new generation of GBs spawns from this movie then more power to it. In the end thats all I care about.
Agreed. :cool:
pferreira1983 liked this
#4886922
Just an FYI the Spidey reboot is being funded by Sony but creative control was given to Marvel and Kevin Feige. If that movie turns out to be a big hit, and Sony's only big hit in years, it will only show how truly incompetent they are. They needed another studio to step in and take over. Embarrassing.

Saying WB is constantly rebooting Batman is hyperbole. There has only been one rebooted Batman franchise so far. Another isn't due for a few years. The last Batman only film came out in 2012. Batman V Superman features a new Batman actor but I wouldn't call it a Batman movie. Maybe that's splitting hairs but saying they are constantly rebooting it is hyperbole. Sony has had three actors playing Spiderman in the last 14 years. In that same time period WB has had two Batman's

I think Sony is the only major studio without a Billion dollar worldwide movie. That again speaks to their incompetence.

Disney is not only releasing hit after hit, they are hits with both critics AND audiences. Sony has yet to release anything resembling a hit this year(or last).

I mean come on. Any studio that greenlit White House Down with a budget of almost 200 million is just insane, especially when a movie with a similar storyline, Olympus Has Fallen, came out months before and was made for less than 100 million.
#4886923
Now that I think about it, it's too bad Green Lantern disappointed. WB wouldn't have had to retreat back to the Batcave so soon. It's practically their safe space at this point.
#4886924
Tyko wrote:True that. Sony is like the Quarterback from your old high school football team. They live in the past talking about their old glory days by retelling the same tale to anybody willing to sit there and listen to them lol. Sony needs to take off the letterman jacket and join the real world.
Well, let's be fair here: Disney are retelling their old stuff with Beauty and the Beast, Star Wars and Jungle Book as well.
#4886925
Alphagaia wrote:
Tyko wrote:True that. Sony is like the Quarterback from your old high school football team. They live in the past talking about their old glory days by retelling the same tale to anybody willing to sit there and listen to them lol. Sony needs to take off the letterman jacket and join the real world.
Well, let's be fair here: Disney are retelling their old stuff with Beauty and the Beast, Star Wars and Jungle Book as well.
Indeed. I don't take anyone seriously anymore when they say audiences want originality. It simply isn't true.
#4886926
Green Lantern done right could be great. Too bad the last one made about as much as GB16. WB also has Harry Potter, the entire DC library and the Lego movies. Compared to Sony, WB is an seperate league entirely. Sony wishes it had a Batcave. If they did One of their movies might actually make some money one day.
#4886927
Pondering this further, WB wishes it had GB16's RT's rating for any of its recent comic book movies. Reputation does matter and theirs is notorious at this point. And even their movies that made money performed under expectations or had drop offs.
Last edited by JurorNo.2 on December 9th, 2016, 8:16 am, edited 2 times in total.
#4886928
Alphagaia wrote:
Tyko wrote:True that. Sony is like the Quarterback from your old high school football team. They live in the past talking about their old glory days by retelling the same tale to anybody willing to sit there and listen to them lol. Sony needs to take off the letterman jacket and join the real world.
Well, let's be fair here: Disney are retelling their old stuff with Beauty and the Beast, Star Wars and Jungle Book as well.
When I read that comment I didn't take it to mean the OP was talking about remakes. Just when Sony was the toast of the town circa 2002-2004 and made hit movies. I could be wrong though.
#4886936
JurorNo.2 wrote:Oh I forgot, that's what fandoms stand for now, making sure wealthy studio execs stay even more wealthy. :roll:
No fandoms now are about hating everyone and using fiction to protect yourself like a shield.

I hate nerds how can I bully one ... "what your complaint this superhero is different to the comics grow up and watch the film god this superhero is for everyone didn't you know that when I use to beat you up for reading those comics in school?"

I hate women how can I bully them? "what who cares about female characters and diversity? We never needed that before god women go back where you came"

I am racist, how can I bully other races? "ill run for president!" ... Ok so that only has one example but its pretty big one lol
JurorNo.2 liked this
#4886940
Peter33vr wrote:Up until October 2014, producer Michael De Luca was insisting that a sequelboot would have been better received (Reitman too).
I absolutely agree with that. It just doesn't excuse or adequately explain the beating this movie took.
Sav C liked this
#4886943
SSJmole wrote:
JurorNo.2 wrote:Oh I forgot, that's what fandoms stand for now, making sure wealthy studio execs stay even more wealthy. :roll:


I hate nerds how can I bully one ...

I hate women how can I bully them?

I am racist, how can I bully other races?
You heard it here first! SSJmole just admitted to being a racist AND hates women. He even asked how he can bully them. He also hates nerds! Tsk tsk SSJmole.

Tsk Tsk indeed!


(I kid. I kid)
#4886945
RichardLess wrote:
SSJmole wrote:

I hate nerds how can I bully one ...

I hate women how can I bully them?

I am racist, how can I bully other races?
You heard it here first! SSJmole just admitted to being a racist AND hates women. He even asked how he can bully them. He also hates nerds! Tsk tsk SSJmole.

Tsk Tsk indeed!


(I kid. I kid)

I did want to punch Raven-Symoné in the face after all day marathon of that's so raven .... It must be true lol
#4886950
Kylie Griffin wrote:It's my understanding that Paul Feig insisted that Ivan Reitman's involvement in ATC be limited. If Sony wasn't even willing to accept his input, clearly they wouldn't have bothered to listen to fans, hence the disaster of biblical proportions this movie became.
This is a common misconception. All Feig wanted was not be a strawman and have Ivan towering over him with the power to veto any decision Feig took. It would slow down production and mean Paul was not his own boss, which every director wants to be.

This however, does not mean Paul was deaf to Ivans input. There are quite a few interviews and videos where we see the two interacting and giving proof Ivan still gave input. It just meant at a stalemate, if it ever came to that, Ivans original veto would not win out.
Sav C liked this
#4886953
If we're going by the new spider-man movie as justification that Sony listens to the audience, then also going by that logic we're due for at least two more Ghostbusters reboots before they loosen the grip and combine forces with another studio that actually listens to the fanbase. Fox dragged their feet for years on "Deadpool" until they listened to the fans, and not only was it great but made a lot of money. Sony listened to the fans with spider-man, and they made a deal with Marvel for a crossover reboot. Should they let the fans write the story and script? No. But browse the internet forums and social media once in a while instead of going with a full-blown reboot/remake to a popular franchise. ATC will be used as a blueprint for future projects over at Sony of what NOT to do.
timeware, Peter33vr, Kylie Griffin and 3 others liked this
#4886954
Alphagaia wrote:
Kylie Griffin wrote:It's my understanding that Paul Feig insisted that Ivan Reitman's involvement in ATC be limited. If Sony wasn't even willing to accept his input, clearly they wouldn't have bothered to listen to fans, hence the disaster of biblical proportions this movie became.
This is a common misconception. All Feig wanted was not be a strawman and have Ivan towering over him with the power to veto any decision Feig took. It would slow down production and mean Paul was not his own boss, which every director wants to be.

This however, does not mean Paul was deaf to Ivans input. There are quite a few interviews and videos where we see the two interacting and giving proof Ivan still gave input. It just meant at a stalemate, if it ever came to that, Ivans original veto would not win out.
I can't prove it but I'm fairly certain these two did not like each other. Do you know how disrespectful Feig was by trying to shut Ivan out? Ivan is a legend in the business. If he offers to be apart of you're Ghostbusters reboot, you take it. You don't email Amy Pascal asking that he's not around on set looking over your shoulder. Do you think Steven Spielberg would put up with that? These guys are artists. Ivan was never going to let Feig be a straw man. I don't think you see how disrespectful that is. Ivan is both a producer and a director. He directed the original film. He's not going to stand there and tell Feig how to do his job. He's not some new kid working on his first movie. The fact that Feig even suggested that is amazing to me.

The two of them doing interviews together is just them doing the old Hollywood song and dance. Do have any idea how many stars hate their co stars yet do interviews acting like they are best friends? You saw with the Sony emails how these people talk about each other behind their backs, right? Like I said I can't prove it but my gut tells me Ivan and Paul did not get along. There's a very telling interview Ivan did with Drew Mcweeny of Hitfix(now Uproxx). Ivan seems very..I don't know. Something just doesn't seem right. I think he was insulted that Sony didn't want him and that they started discussing a reboot with Feig behind his back. Read the interview with Mcweeny. There's a very interesting bit at the end where Mcweeny's kid says he liked the new film better. Mcweeny knows Ivan and even he senses something isn't quite right.
pferreira1983 liked this
#4886955
Ivan had to approve Feigs idea before he gave consent to let him do it his way. According to the leak, they had dinner and Feig wrote how great it went and Ivan let Amy know he was happy now and agreed the movie should be made. I have the quotes from the emails if you don't believe it. Just not on my phone. Feig even wrote how much respect they had for each other.
#4886961
Alphagaia wrote:Ivan had to approve Feigs idea before he gave consent to let him do it his way. According to the leak, they had dinner and Feig wrote how great it went and Ivan let Amy know he was happy now and agreed the movie should be made. I have the quotes from the emails if you don't believe it. Just not on my phone. Feig even wrote how much respect they had for each other.
Did you skip the email where Ivan gets upset at a reboot? That he didn't agree to that? You're picking a choosing facts a bit conveniently.

Look of course Ivan had to approve Paul. You are missing what I'm saying. The whole not wanting Ivan on set was disrespectful and in the end I don't think they really liked each other. That's just my read on the situation.
Keep in mind that Ivan wouldn't be aware of Pauls disrespect until AFTER the Sony leak(I'm guessing).
pferreira1983 liked this
#4886964
I did not. Ivan was super upset because the reboot news leaked to press when he did not want it known yet as they were still deciding if Paul would get the job. Sony acknowledges his anger and are angry themselves as apparently they have someone leaking stuff to the press. This angry email from Ivan complaining about the word reboot is why many people concluded he was against a reboot, but they have not read the emails explaining why he was upset about the word: it was simply not decided yet as he still had to talk to Paul and some asshole journalist jumped the gun before a deal was even completed. We have already discussed this here as well, and I can show you the quotes as well tomorrow if you want?

I do not remember Paul not wanting him on the set though. Especially when during the making of we see Ivan on set for multiple occasions. Now, I understand he is not needed everyday as he is an advisor, but do you have a link where Paul is being disrespectful to Ivan in that way?

Look, I'm not saying they became best buds or anything, but there was no disrespect or hate between the two. It was a fine working relationship muddled by leaks to the press and the stress of deciding what to do with the GB deal after Ramis passed away, but once they discussed the reboot during a lunch Ivan was all for it, but wanting callbacks to the originals. Which some think they overdid.
#4886975
The news leak was in August. Reitman angry mail was in October because "we don't have a script yet, things can change during the works" I.e. he was still hoping to connect Feig movie to his movies.

Another angry mail was in March when he found out that Sony was shopping around for a new director and new ideas without him knowing. "I thought we were still producing the Cohen script??? I'm incredibly pissed".

He found out because a director called him directly to give him a pitch instead of calling Pascal.

So, yes, not only Sony f@cked up the franchise but they f@cked up things with Reitman. He's only been super classy letting them doing their things (maybe knowing they would fail?) and keeping Aykroyd calm (August mail "Dan has taken an internal warpath....Ivan will talk to him)

Surely, letting them form Ghost Corps to drive the franchise again has made miracles for their angryness.
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